Hollywood and Public Policy: Heather-Ashley Boyer ’16 is an actress and a leading voice in AI and entertainment legislation

[0:00]Hello, the guest today is Heather Ashley Boyer, class of 2016. She is an actress, a producer and the director of movies. So so hi, Heather Ashley. What is it like to be an actor? Hey. Tony, really good to see you. Being an actor is awesome. I really enjoy it. I've been acting in some way basically my whole life, so yeah, it's really fun. What is it like to be an actor like the day-to-day like? The day-to-day of being an actor, it varies so, so much. One day you can be in class, the other day you're filming, another day you're rehearsing. Some days it's, you know, you're doing like a side gig or whatever. So yeah, it just, it varies so much from day-to-day. But personally, in my opinion, I think that's part of what makes it exciting and fun. Well, like do you usually have like multiple projects working at the same time? Is that why it's like so many ups and downs every day? For me, yes, I'm recently over the past past few years, I've been juggling like, you know, two to three films at one time while also auditioning for other stuff. So it can be a lot. And then in addition to acting work, I also have been very involved in like AI policy work. So people often ask me, you know, how the heck do you balance everything? I don't have a great answer. It's, you know, it's like taking it day by day. And oftentimes I will be honest, I do feel kind of a bit strung out or I'm like, you know, feeling stretched pretty. So recently I've honestly been trying to sort of like be more streamlined about how I approach things. Yeah, that makes sense. You've been in LA for a couple of years now, like over the years. How do you measure that? You like your improvement over time. That's a great question. I think that there's a few different metrics. An easy 1 is probably like looking at yourself taste that you submit for acting roles. I think that that's a big one. I think my training has really helped me a lot. Back during the pandemic, I was studying Playhouse West Philly.

[2:00]And before I started studying there, I just felt this like frustration. I used to be a rower back in high school and college briefly. And I when I first started rowing, I kept catching crabs. It's like this term. It's not literal crabs. It's just like when your oar gets stuck in the water and you can potentially, if this is really bad, you can potentially like capsize the boat with everybody in it. So that never happened as far as I remember. But you know, I definitely do remember that I kept catching these crabs, as did other people, you know, But I felt really frustrated. I was like, how the heck do I stop catching these crabs? And I was actually watched myself on tape. I would watch myself rowing on the water on like video. And I would talk to my coach and be like, hey, like, how do I stop doing this? And they're like, it'll happen. You know, it'll happen for you. Just keep trying. Like it'll click. I was so, so frustrated. I felt like it would net. It was never gonna click. And one day randomly, my body just like did something different and it clicked. And so, yeah, so I honestly felt like I had that same experience when I was at Playhouse West Philly, where I was like, I got the same feedback from my teacher. Even. I asked him. I was like, how the heck do I improve faster? I'm all about efficiency. You know, I want to get there now. And it just wasn't happening for me. And it was so embarrassing. And I was like, beating myself up about it. And then I think I just sort of relaxed. One day I chatted with one of my classmates and it just sort of clicked somehow. And I think, yeah, so. So I think that that is definitely a metric where I'm like, oh, I'm definitely improving. I feel really positive about this. But it's really hard, at least for my learning style. My learning style I don't think is like linear. Like, I feel like it's like you have like ups and downs, kind of roller, a roller coaster. And it's just a matter of like sticking with it, seeing it out, knowing that I've been through this before, like in sports and, you know, it's just perseverance while also being curious and learning and keeping at it and persisting. So, So yeah. So I think that that's like one

[4:01]of the biggest metrics in my experience is like, is this clicking? Do I see a change like on myself tapes? And obviously if you're booking more stuff, like more. Roles. That's possible. That's a good sign. Yeah, Exactly. Exactly. But but like even with that, like there's so many factors that go into like why somebody books a role. So just because you booked something or like because you didn't like, that's not necessarily a reflection of like if your skill is like, you know, improving or not. Like it's complicated. So yeah, I try to use like a combination of of metrics to measure like am I improving? Am I heading in a good direction? I like in rolling, there's like the correct form or like there's like the physics, physics and like body, like the mechanics that's proven to be the right form. Is there like a right self tape? Is there like a optimal like the best self tape that you could make for each row It's. A really great question. Honestly, I think I'm still figuring that part out a little bit. But yes, there there is like a standard that people have for a while, like it was really big to have like a giant like blue backdrop, but then people were like, no, it should be grey. So I don't know, I feel like some of these trends like change a little bit and what you hear from casting directors at the end of the day, they're like whatever. Like as long as it's good acting, that's what matters the most. And sure, you shouldn't have like really distracting stuff in your background. You shouldn't have like, you know, dogs barking or cats meowing. You should just keep it like pretty professional and keep it pretty simple. But I think at the end of the day, as long as you have like, good acting, that's what matters most. So when you're looking at the self table, like, what do you look for? Do you look for like body movements? You look for like the way that you speak it. What do you look for? That's a good question. I think overall casting directors, casting writers, I don't know that I should be like speaking for this, but from what I've heard, I think that they kind of look for like, are you connected to the character? Are you lived? It's like this term, like have you, are you like living in the character?

[6:03]Are you like living as the character under imaginary circumstances? You know, so they're I don't think that they really in particular look for like certain movements or whatever they do. They want you to feel like free, like they want it to feel natural, you know? Yeah. And I think, I think 1 little strategy that people do is because I've also heard sometimes casting directors say like, I only watched like the first few seconds of a self tape when it can go on for like, like, I don't know, a minute or whatever. Like the whole tape can be like a minute. And they're like, oh, I only watched like the first like 3 seconds or like the 1st 10 seconds. And from an actor's perspective, we're like, what? We put all this work into a self tape just for it to be like literally the first part and then you know, or you don't. So because of that, and I know the the really great casting directors are the ones who are like, no, no, like we watch the whole thing or, you know, they reassure actors they're like don't worry. But but because some casting directors, because some casting directors are so pressed for time and they only do watch the very beginning, actors have learned like, OK, I gotta do something at the beginning, like to kind of have the hook, you know, like catch their attention somehow, like. TikTok yeah, it's. It's literally like TikTok. Exactly, exactly. And like TikTok, you know, it's not always the TikTok that has something hooky or catchy at the beginning. Sometimes you do watch because, you know, it's not something earth shattering at the very beginning, but usually it is something exciting at the beginning. So yeah. And is it like, does it like look more natural like the, the you're more naturally the character if it's if the character is like very similar to you or like what, what makes the character more natural to that? I think so. I think that that's definitely the easiest like role to to find yourself in as an actor. There were, of course, other actors. I adored Val Kilmer and he often played roles that were like quite different from who he was,

[8:05]but he still played them extremely convincingly. And you really felt like, whoa, he is this character and, and actors have all different ways of finding themselves in a character. I don't recall Val's exact approach. It may may have involved a little bit of method acting. I'm not quite sure about that. But but yeah, method acting is like very hardcore and you're basically living your life as like in character. And nowadays actors like aren't really a fan of doing that because it's just taxing and it kind of takes a toll on your family and people around you, you know, your other actors on set. So it's kind of frowned upon I think to do method acting nowadays. I feel like it had a bit of a popularity like years ago or whatever, but nowadays I think that the most popular method, or at least the way that I was trained was the Misner technique. And that is more about the very beginning of the curriculum and ballot repetition. So you literally have a partner you sit across from a fellow acting student and you just kind of like observe things about each other, like on a very basic service level at 1st and then it progresses from there and then eventually get you get into scene work. But the ground, it really grounds you in a way that I had never experienced being like grounded as an actor previously. And that's like a big term in a positive way that you hear a lot in acting is like. Grounded. Compliment, yes, if someone is like grounded, it's like wow, like they were really, you know, like settled into the character and really connect. And I feel like that's really the first step. Of. Like really good acting, at least dramatic acting, comedy, that's like its own thing, but. So for like a drama that being grounded is very important because it makes more realistic. Yes, exactly. And it's more magnetic. I love Val Kilmer because in pretty much every role he played he was so magnetic and like charismatic. And that's what I look for.

[10:06]And when I'm like watching a movie or watching a performance, I'm like, wow, this actor is so magnetic. They really draw the audience in and it just really inspires me as an actor. Even if I even if I know that, like what I bring to the table isn't necessarily that exact thing that that let's say Val Kilmer brings to the table, I find myself inspired by, you know, that kind of performance. Like wow, this is I could watch him forever. So that you'll be inspired to be grounded yourself as well. Yes, yes, exactly. Yes, yes. But again, I kind of know that I'm not gonna be Val Kilmer at the end of the day, but it's like my own version of of being grounded. So, so like for the self tape, you would have to show that you're grounded, but then after the self tape is done and you get the role, you said to be grounded in the role as well. Yeah, exactly. And that's something that people talk about like that, you know, it's auditioning is a skill into itself. Whereas playing the role, you know, being in the role on set is like just entirely different. So you do have some people who are, you know, really great at auditioning or really bad at auditioning, and then they get on set and it's like the opposite, you know. So it's tricky. It's and self taping is fairly recent, you know, since the pandemic. So I think a lot of actors have been pushing to be back in the room in the in the real, you know, physically in the actual audition room more. And I think a lot of actors feel more comfortable with that. There's more of a connection with the casting director. You know that they're going to watch your whole audition because you're there. Unless they cut you off like. Like if they cut you off 3 seconds in person, it's like, well, that's that's awkward and uncomfortable. You know, they're less inclined to do that, I would imagine, But but yeah. And that's accurate. Do you like respond to the audience as well? Like if the casting director is there, they give you small signals and you're able to respond to that. Exactly. Yes, that's a really great point, part of being in the room. But the casting director can give you an adjustment. And for me, I've learned that helps me a lot because I feel

[12:07]like collaborating with the director or the casting director like kind of helps me relax into it more. And I'm like, OK, like they see me how. And now they're giving me feedback, OK. And that kind of makes me really excited to like make an adjustment. And I feel like that's something that I feel comfortable with. And like, because some actors like they don't take direction even in a even in an audition. And that's something that you like, that's something that they basically screen for, you know, they're like, can this actor take direction? And sometimes they can't. And. That's a red flag, yeah. That's a red and honestly, but I'm like, why does that happen? But I think it happens because sometimes in preparing for a role and from from memorizing the lines, do you get caught in a bit of like a line reading? If you, if you like, repeat your lines or memorize your lines like in the exact same way every time, you can get sort of trapped and stuck in that. So I think that maybe that is why sometimes actors struggle between direction. I like, wait, I rehearsed it this way. How do I don't know how to do it another way, You know, So but yeah, but take being able to get direction from a director, casting director when you're in the room is like huge for, you know, a few reasons. And it can give you a better performance. So yeah, I I really do enjoy that part. That makes sense. So you got to be grounded and you have to be able to take directions. Yes, exactly. Because imagine if you get on set and you know the director's job is too direct and to tell the actor how they generally, you know, how they want the actor to do this scene, you know, different directors, right differently. But I imagine that the director is going to want to be able to collaborate with the actor and work with the actor and have the actor take direction. And you know that's the problem if they can't. Like how important is it to get the perfect actor for that role? Is it like if any of the top 10 auditions they become the role? Like a good director can just make sure that the whole thing comes together. One answer that fortunately, I

[14:07]will say that I recently finished filming on. I was very involved in casting it and I think that I was very particular about who we cast. And so it's kind of hard to imagine, like somebody else having played the roles and we ended up casting with those actors. But, you know, but things happen. Like, in, in all honesty, things happen. Actors drop out or whatever. We didn't have that happen as far as I remember. But in general, you know, even in big productions, like, you've got things like, get shaken up and, you know, you just got to roll with it. And yeah, I think at the end of the day, you're right. Like, I think that the director just has to pull together whoever he has, who's in the cast and kind of, you know, make it happen. It's like the show must go on, as we always love to say, film and theater. So yeah. But of course, like with and with me right now, I'm in the process of going to attach chapters to a feature. And I with that, I am very particular about like who I really want. And it's really hard for me to imagine somebody else in some of the roles that I have in mind. And and you hear that with like, even like some big movies often sometimes like roles get offered to actors and the director basically is like, hey, I can't, I wrote this for you. Like, I can't imagine anyone else in the role. So yeah. So I think and with others, they're like, I have no idea who I'm gonna cast in this. And they go on like a big casting search. So I think it really depends on on the production and the vision that the director has. That means because if the director and the actor worked well together in the past and in the future, they could work well together as again. Yeah, yes, exactly. You see that a lot with like Wes Anderson, Chris Nolan, you know, they have like basically an ongoing, like a standing cast that they often. Yeah. Use in everything now and it works so.

[16:07]You gotta be grounded with the character, but you also gotta be grounded with the director as well. That's right, that's right. You don't wanna. You gotta be cool with. The character Like, is the goal to be more grounded so that you film each scene with fewer takes so you get it done earlier? Like what? What's like the goal? Yes, I think that the goal goal is just to capture like good acting on camera. And if you capture good acting on camera, then yes, there's probably going to be fewer takes. If somebody is not grounded, I can imagine that they're gonna be like, OK, go again and like try it again, you know, try it a different way. Like we try this, you know. And so yes, I think that being grounded is is a very solid first step for dramatic acting. Gotcha, that makes sense. So over your experience, go ahead. Grounded like has like a stillness when you're on camera. And, and again, this is something I found. It wasn't natural to me, I think when I first started, just like with rowing. And then, you know, it eventually clicked. But yeah, it's like being grounded on camera. It's like there's like a stillness, like a gravitas to you and it makes you more interesting to, to watch and there's less like busyness going on. And every little thing, every little like facial movement, like every little thing means more. And I think in theatre, like it's generally different. Like you can be bigger. I think that you're still grounded and and like centered as an actor, but it's just you're playing to the back of the room typically for theatre, like it's just, it's bigger. But especially for on camera work, you really do need to be grounded. It's like for a dramatic role again, unless it's like some sort of comedy twist to it or whatever. But but, yeah, that groundedness, like really draws just the audience in. Like if you were into like whatever little thing that you're doing. Yeah, it's I like it.

[18:08]That makes sense so so the the actor and the director, if they can click together, then they work better. Like what what about like the actor and the audience members like, like for each new movie that an actor is in, like they have a fan base that goes to that movie. Like what, what what makes that that that connection? I. Mean yeah, that's that's a huge point in like studio films. I think that, you know, if like, let's say an actor is cancelled, well, are they gonna cast them in something? Probably not like that would be a bad business decision. So but yeah, so the the fan base, I think of an actor is, is important and I think that's especially like important with like, you know, star actors. It's interesting though, I think that that has shifted in recent times, like films like obsession, you know, more like unknown people in that it was still really successful. So that it had like, I think like the online following though. So it was like the actors didn't have a big following, but like the the story, I guess, or no, that's not right. I'm confusing that with backgrounds. It's I, I tend to blend back rooms and obsession in my mind. Yeah. But I guess, I guess both of those films are good examples though, of, of films that were like indie films and they still were very successful despite not having like a Matt Damon leading the cast. So. But I think that in general, you do need some sort of hook just like without auditions or whatever, you know, you do need some sort of hook of like, why this film? Why now? Why should audiences see it now? And so it could be that they have a star actor, or it could be that the subject matter is very topical right now, or it could be that it's like a franchise or whatever that they have like a loyal. Fan. Yeah, but so many factors go into whether somebody wants to go into the movie theater and watch that movie. Exactly. Exactly. Yes. Yes.

[20:09]It's like a like as you're acting like, do you think of the and the audience as well, or do you mostly think how do I tell this story the best and to let the story carry the way for the audience That's. A good question. I think that for me in theater, like live theater and I, my origin was as a dancer, like ballet dancer. And so for me, I really enjoyed that connection with the audience being on stage. But for film and TV, it's more about like the role. You're more like lived in the role. It's like you become that character in some sort of way and it's less about you're basically trying to act as if the camera is not there. Although you have to be aware of where the camera is, you know, usually and like what shot they're doing, but you have to, you know, act as if it's not there. Again, unless it's for some stylistic choice where you're like told to like the office or whatever where it's like. Yeah, that's the camera. Yeah, but yeah. But so typically it's it's more about like living in the role when you're. But that makes sense I. Love, I love both. I think, I think a lot of actors, if you really ask them, they're like, yeah, I, I love theatre. I love that live theatre experience and real time feedback from the audience. Cuz you can hear the audience's reaction when you're on set. It's like exciting in a different way, but you don't have that like real time feedback from. So you have the feedback maybe from the director or like the crew who's on set. So it's, you know, it's sort of similar, but but, and I think there's like an energy on set. Like if you feel like like a shot is like really going or a scene is really going well, you feel that energy. So I think it's that energy that I really like. And I guess with theater typically like it's just more obvious that you're the feedback you're getting is more obvious in real time, but. But yeah, you're literally right there watching you. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I love both. It's just different experiences.

[22:11]Do you like build up your fan base overtime as well? Do you like go try and meet the people who watch your films and try to carry like a longer term relationship? Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. I think for me right now in my progression, I think that a lot of it is like networking kind of and making friends along the way as well, like through Co workers or whatever. But yeah, I think like right now a lot of that is like going to film festivals that my film happens to be in. And then people come up to you and they're like, I loved your film or you know, it's so great to meet you. Like I've I've seen you online, I've heard of you, you know, it's stuff like that. But but yeah, I think it's different. It's a little bit different at like every phase of someone's career. So obviously when they get really big, it's it's it's different. But you know, you're right though. It's the value of connecting with your audience and valuing them and, you know, respecting them and all of that. And of course it should be mutual. Where they're respectful of you as well. But but yeah, that's, that's definitely a big part. I think of being an actor like that, that personal connection. And I think different actors have different views on some of this. Some people are like, oh, I just go in and do the work and then I leave and, and audiences and fans, whatever, you know. But my personal feeling is that, you know, audiences and fans are like a big part of, you know, someone's success. So. So I'm of the opinion that that's something that should be cherished. Nice. So so like over the years you started doing some producing and directing as well. Does being a good actor also help you become a good producer and director as well? Yes, yes, yes. I think in general, if you wear multiple hats, like with doing different, like having different roles on the set, I think that that that helps each each thing that you do. And in terms of like being an actor and then translating acting stuff into producing, I

[24:11]think that it helps you relate more to the actors, you know what they need, you know, like if the director's direction is helping them or not. You also know, like, are they doing OK? Like you can literally like put yourself in their shoes and just kind of like check in on that and then be like, you know, do they need anything? How can I be of help on the set? And yeah, so I think that, yeah. So it's it's it's helpful. So, so as their career progresses, like you're trying to do more producing and more directing over time, like how do you view the career trajectory? Let's. See, so I've actually I've actually not done directing yet. It would be. Really cool to do it, but I think after producing for a few years now, I, I basically got into producing because I looked at, you know, Margot Robbie and I was like, whoa, she is amazing. She is. An incredible. Incredible actress and so respected. And then she's also an incredible businesswoman. She's just, you know, doing it all. And so I was extremely inspired by her and other actresses like her. And so I I saw that like, oh, she's I have to, you know, I have to do that too. I want to be a multi hype in it. I want to be actress, producer, etc. Even Leo DiCaprio, you know he has his own production company as well, Appian Way. He's a producer, too. He is, yeah. And Robbie, she produced Saltburn. She wasn't even in Saltburn. So she's and it was incredible. So I was like, okay, that's the blueprint. Margot is the blueprint. How do I be like that? So yeah, so then I reached out to some friends and actually a Cornelian was one of the first ones to give me a producing role. And yeah, shout out Lontez Blair. Thanks, Santez, but but yeah, so that was really cool. And then it kind of quickly snowballed actually, where once I got 1 producing gig, suddenly other people were coming to me wanting me to produce for them. But it was very great, It was very cool and I'm very proud of it. But I realized the type of producing that I'm doing right

[26:14]now is probably a little bit different than the type that let's say Leo or Margo are doing so. What is different in the ways to produce? Yes. So typically I know a lot of like big name folks are, you know, executive producers typically or they get like a producing credit. So that means they get part of the back end of like the money from the film. And yes, technically they can make creative decisions as well. Technically they can probably make like even casting decisions like who they want to be in the movie. You know, they, they can kind of step in at any moment as far as they know and just sort of like have a creative say, which is ideal because for the longest time, actors didn't have that, you know, they were just do what you're told. They were just told to like, you know, do as you're told And and that's all you're a hired gun and and that's it. You know, but, yeah, I think like the big stars are like, yeah. But like I should have a creative say in this. And so they can negotiate that in their contract where their, their agent probably is really a great agent and they're like, OK, yes, this person is going to sign on here, but they're going to be an executive producer also. So. So. Yeah, I think I kind of realized that and the type of producing that I'm doing right now. And who knows, maybe Margo and Leo are much more hands on than what I'm saying. But I think typically people of that level are doing a million things and they just don't have time to be super, super hands on with like producing a film, you know? So but yeah, but for me, a lot of the producing work that I've been doing is very hands on. So in the sense of like, just, you know, you're kind of carrying the whole film, making it happen. I typically have worked with teams of folks. So it's not as if I'm the only person who's making it happen. But you know, I could be working typically with like maybe one to two other people who are also carrying a really heavy, heavy like load on this and then like 5 people or whatever. But but at the end of the day, I think like me being an actor, that's kind of, I realized like

[28:16]that's really my priority. That's really where my heart is. And that's really where I need to focus more in the future on so that one day I can, you know, maybe become like, you know, really where I'm aiming to be. But I think it was a very good learning experience and I and I don't they're very proud, but it was definitely eye opening run like wow, like producing and executive producing are very different and there is so so the. Goal is to focus more on the acting going forward. Yes, yes. I think so and you know, I think it also it depends. I will say it depends on the project. If someone, you know, it hands me a script and I'm like, well, this is amazing, you know, which has happened, you know, of course I'm gonna consider taking that on as a producer. And but yeah, I think, I think, I think I want to be more, more streamlined coming up. So that makes. Sense you also do the the the union like the SAG AFTRA work as well. How does that balance with the acting work? Like how do you balance the two with with each other? Yes, again. It's it's tricky balancing everything, but yeah. But it's I'm very proud to be doing what I do within SAG after I'm very honored. I was elected by my peers in the fall to be on the board of the LA local. I've also. Yeah. I've also gotten to be in a number of national board meetings for SAG after like vote in those meetings. So I mean, it's, it's truly an incredible honor and I feel a lot of responsibility that comes with that. So truly, like I had kind of put my whole life on pause for about like 9 months or something crazy like that. Wow to yeah, to try to ensure that SAG AFTRA folks be protected when it comes to AI in our latest contract. And I can't like say too much specifically about like stuff regarding all of that. We were covered by NDA's. We have like these things called workers and wages meetings.

[30:17]And, and so I was like very active and those meetings and also chatting with, you know, union leaders about like what I felt we really needed in our contract. And, you know, it's tricky because it's complicated. It's like what's politically feasible and and also what is existential, you know, in our profession. And I personally felt that like AI was in the existential category. And we're still seeing how some of that plays out, like AI films that have been coming out recently. And you know, we can't stop all of that unfortunately, but there are there are protections that we can and did put in our contract, which I'm very grateful for and proud of what like to like. To like somebody who's not in the industry, like what's like, how is the AI affecting like like acting actors? I think a lot of. Actors were very scared just off the bat of like Hayward is headed, are we going to be out of a job? And I think was very justified to be concerned about that. I'm less concerned about that right this second. But things can change quickly. I think you know, Tilly Norwood. I don't know if you heard about Tilly Norwood. It's like it's like this whole everyone's so sick of hearing it in Hollywood. I feel like including me, but Tilly Norwood is like this AI actor that this alleged former actor created. And I'm like, you call yourself an actress. I don't know. This is not an actor's actor thing to do. But you're the whole premise of what you're doing feels very wrong. So. But yeah, so is this creation Tilly Norwood. And I think now they're making a life story biopic that's Tilly Norwood. And I'm like, who cares? But it was and Tilly Norwood in, in, in and of herself itself. People are, I swear, Tony, people are so particular about this, like people and good, right? They're like, we shouldn't be, you know, humanizing this thing. It's it's a computer program. It's not a person, you know, they, they really try to draw a line. And even in a recent contract,

[32:18]it used to be a synthetic performer previously and now it is actually they took they struck the performer component and it's only now referred to legally as a synthetic. So even that actors were very passionate about, like, that change happening. And we should be, you know, So, yeah. Because every little. Nuance of how how things are framed is important and especially when it comes to like legal stuff. So. So yeah. But anyway, so this Tilly Norwood, nobody likes Tilly Norwood and our audience is going to like, go see a movie with Tilly Norwood. I highly doubt it. Like, uh huh. What is Tilly? No Norwood. It's Lee Norwood. Recognizable. So like if somebody hears the voice, they're like, oh, that's Tilly Norwood. Like what's? What is Tilly normal? Great question. So Tilly Norwood is like a like, kind of like an avatar. Like it's, it's OK. Trying to. Be it's trying to replace and the creator would argue about that, but let's be real, it's trying to replace like a real human actor and the creator. She's changed her story by the way, so many times, like it's so fishy. But now she's claiming that oh, Tilly Norwood is based off of like my her, you know, actual body movements. So she's basically now trying to claim that it's like performance capture or motion capture, which is like a legit thing in SAG after, you know, there's like a category for that I believe, you know, like Avatar, you know, use either. I think it was performance capture. And, you know, so I think she, she's trying to legitimize this Tilly Norwood as like a viable business option. And she's like, how can I monetize this? How can I get money? And she's basically saying whatever she's saying to try to get that angle. But yeah, but it's tricky because for ethical reasons, because Tilly Norwood was like

[34:18]trained on, you know, people on the Internet, Internet and hypothetically could put real actors out of work. So are is Tilly Norwood really going to put actors out of work? I doubt it because I've seen the audience backlash. Now audiences just flat out seem to hate AI in general from an aesthetic standpoint but also from an ethical standpoint. You even see data centers. There's a massive pushback now. Just a guy. Yeah. Because of that ethical component, which I, I wasn't sure, I've been following all of this AI stuff for like 6 years now. And I didn't necessarily expect, I hoped, but I didn't expect that there would be such big pushback at this point in the game. So I'm glad that there is. And so personally, I think that like Tilly Norwood isn't something that we need to be overly worried about right now. There's also another company, Higgs Field AI. I know that they tried to like screen their film is like all AI and I'm not sure if they use real voice actors in that. That's another thing like technically some people could be like, well, it's like an animation. You know, you can use human voices to do voiceover, but truly like 11 labs exists out there. So 11 labs you can use AI for a voice or whatever. But yeah, before they had like. CGI effects, right? Like CGI to make things. So this is different from that. This is different. Yes. And it's different because, again, of the way that it was trained and just the existential threat that it presents because like with CGI, like you could do really stuff with it, but you weren't gonna ultimately put like entire industries out of work really, You know, like, yeah. So. So I think that because of the wins that we did get in our SAG after contract, like I personally am less worried at

[36:21]this moment. But I think it's something that we need to continue to keep an eye on. We need to continue to press Congress and lawmakers like, hey, we need stricter rules on all of this stuff so that it can be used as a tool because they're I am of the opinion that there are positive use cases for AI just in general. I use it in my daily life. I know some people don't, some people are very hands off. But I try to take more of the middle Rd. on some of that and yeah, but I think it can be used as a tool. But even as of yesterday, I think the news broke that open AI with their most recent model, it like escaped or something on the Internet. Yeah. And it hacked into this thing, this website called Hugging Face, which stores like AI like a hub, like where they have AI models that you can use. I think. I'm not super familiar with it, but but yeah, but basically people are saying like, hey, this is a warning shot. This is what scientists have been concerned about and have been, you know, screaming to the rooftops about for a long time now. And I'm in those circles with those scientists. And I've been trying to amplify what they've been saying. And it's crazy. It's. Yeah. So I think that there are real reasons to be concerned about some of the stuff around AI. And I think a lot of people in Hollywood come to it from a place where they're like, we could, you know, could pose a risk to my job. And I'm like, yes, it could, but there are worse concerns than folks losing our jobs, you know, when it comes to AI. So I'm of the opinion where I'm like, you know, I've got my, got my yeah. I just try to have like a big big picture outlook on where where are the. Like the battlegrounds like in this like battle like are there like so you said there's Congress, so like Congress could pass a law. There's also the audience in the movie theater. They wouldn't watch the movie if there was, like, a synthetic in there. Like, what are the different places where this is fought over?

[38:22]Yeah. So definitely I would say California and New York like and Tennessee, a lot of the states have taken this the state level. Yes, the state. Level, which seems to have sort of angered some of the folks, such as like Trump, some of the people in his circle, I think. And they're frustrated and they're like like a patchwork of, you know, state laws and we need a federal law for some of this. And folks like me are like, okay, well, great. Well, where's the federal law? We don't see one. So, and the thought is, is like the federal law is likely going to be not as strong as what the states have implemented already. And even the states like it's not a done deal with them. Like they're still like on a daily basis trying to get new laws passed. I had testified for AB412 in December. There is hearing at Stanford and I went up with a bunch of folks from SAG, AFTRA, other creatives, concept artists, and a whole room of us showed up and like overwhelmed the lawmakers and they were like, Oh my gosh, what is this? And there was like an open AI Rep there and they were like grilling the open AI Rep. They're like, what do you have to say for yourself? You know, this is a whole room of people you're basically trying to put on work, you know, like, do you have any guilt or remorse? Like, what do you have to say? But yeah, so I went up and testified and this bill was basically to have transparency when copyrighted works are used in an AI system. And that's basically like a very first step to be like, okay, this AI model was any of my. Work like my films, my books, my illustrations were any of my, you know, creations used to train this. But unfortunately, the law I don't believe or the bill doesn't require anything beyond that because they're just like, we just need to get that first step in there. And of course. Yes. Transparency. And then, you know, the step beyond that, I imagine, is for

[40:25]people to be like, you used my thing, my my creation. Well, where's the money? You know, so I think they're trying to legally take it like a step at a time. But yeah, it's it's tricky. So and then I think would be great if we could have laws on the federal level. I know there's something called a no fakes act that seems to slowly be making progress finally and sag after it's been very supportive of that. I've met with congressional folks and, you know, said why it would be helpful for somebody like me. And yeah. And then there's also the international level, which I think personally is extremely important for some of the bigger stuff. This is like films are made. All around the world, yeah. Definitely they are, yes, yes. But I think for the international level, for me, I think that there needs to be like a treaty like to create like a CERN for AI or some sort of governing body or just honestly anything. There's, there have been a lot of ideas floated out there even by some of the leaders of the AI companies, Sam Altman, Dario Amade, Demi Hassabis, everybody is trying to be like, OK, how do we sort of work together on some of this? And I think over the last number of months, there actually has been some more traction on some of that work. But it's kind of typically of the it's it's sort of limited to where leaders of tech companies or even lawmakers or whoever people in Trump's are, everybody is like, OK, we know that we need to do something about AI on an international level. And then that's it. And then they kind of don't seemingly take it a step. Yeah, it's like, OK, yeah, there's something. Yeah. It's like, OK, what are you going to do beyond that? Like some of these discussions, I feel like that I've been, you know, in that I've heard and been part of in DC or whatever. It's like, it's so basic. It's like sometimes it would boil down to like, we can't do that. And I'm like, but why? Or China, you know, would never agree to that. And I'm like, but why like, have you talked to the Chinese leaders? Like can we be a little curious

[42:26]about some of this? It's it's been so like ham fisted a little bit. And some of like the the feedback that I've heard, like the the counter arguments, you know, to me saying to like a politician, like, hey, like, would you be open to starting like a treaty or would you be open to, you know, what do you think about something? You know, do you think that we need a treaty? And they're like, well, maybe, but it just can't happen. I'm like, well, why? You know, So I think that the conversation is slowly shifting, but it's still frustratingly like very simple in nature where and I was actually a few months ago trying to get to the bottom of some of this where I was like, like, OK, I think we do need a treaty. So I met with all of the authors of draft treaties out there right now for AII, met with them like one-on-one and I and I asked them to like talk me through their draft treaty. And I was like, OK, why do you think we need this? Why do you think we need that? Do you think this is outdated? You know, what are your opinions about this? What are your red lines? You know, and I felt like maybe the lawmakers, like, just don't know what to do. Maybe they just don't know what a treaty would look like. Maybe they don't understand the technology well enough. So I was like, maybe I can try to help them solve some of their problems for them. But yeah, I think like a big, I think a lot of the lawmakers are basically just at the point where they're like, okay, maybe this is politically feasible. We didn't think it was, we thought it was impossible. It's like it's called moving the Overton window. This is like a big term that you hear a lot about it. And so I think that the Overton window has shifted. I think that like the Overton window means like, is this within the realm of possibility? Is this politically likely? Or is this, does this sound crazy? And so I think that the Overton window has shifted to the point where it doesn't sound so crazy anymore. And it's more a matter of everybody's like, okay, I think we need to do something, but we have no clue what to do. We don't know what's enforceable. We don't know what we can verifiably do. Yeah. And all of this is specifically around advanced AI capabilities like Mythos or Fable or Kimmy 3,

[44:28]Kimmy 3, whatever the newest Chinese model is. It's really around labs that are trying to build or grow like super intelligence basically. That's or recursive self improvement. You know, that's like really what they're gunning for. So it's not so much like constraining like how you use an image generator or something like that, like, yeah, but when you're like. Testifying like to legislators like what makes it effective and like moving the Overton window what makes it effective and when you look in acting you look at self tapes to try and make be better a character what makes your testifying effective yes so. Let's see. So I think so I've testified, but then I've also had one-on-one meetings with lawmakers and their offices and staffers and stuff like that. So I think it's in general, you want to have a personal connection to what you're saying. For me, some of what I would lead with was the fact that I was deepfaked by in a Will Smith music video last August. So it was pretty crazy. And my image was basically like a digital replica. I mean, basically created, I believe, from my social media photos, and it was done without my permission and inserted into this music video. And then it was covered by BuzzFeed. It got, you know, some traction on the news. And it was bizarre because I was like, I don't know how to handle this. I didn't even know until a friend told me and screenshotted it. And he was like, this is you. I hope you sue. And I was like, what? Funny. And I'm like, oh, my God, it is me. So. So. Yeah. So that's kind of like a thing that I tend to lead with. I'm like, hey, Hollywood, this is how it's already affected me, and it's affecting other people in more devastating ways than that. For my situation, it was just kind of like, that's a little unsettling, that's a little weird. It's maybe a little bit funny in retrospect, but for other people, it's devastating. There's like D what is it like the new defying apps or

[46:31]whatever? It's really dark. Like people I think bullied over it. It's bad. So, but yeah, so that's typically what I lead in with something that gives a personal connection and even just like saying like, hey, I'm an actor, this sense an existential threat to my profession. That is enough to say that like if you're giving like a 15 second testimony or whatever, that might just like saying that is, is enough. But yeah, but then beyond that, like in meetings that I've had with congressional folks, I've sort of led with the personal connection. And then I'm like, you know, a lot of Hollywood folks are concerned about this, but I'm also concerned about like actually much bigger stuff like national security stuff and even beyond national security stuff, like truly like existential stuff that I feel like there's a gap right now in the, the laws that currently exist and what like the labs, for instance, are allowed to do and like contingency plans for like if something bad would happen. You know, it seems unclear that there's anything planned for stuff like that. If you listen to a lot of what the labs are saying, a lot of like what the people who lead the labs, like the CEO's are saying, a lot of it is kind of insane. One of my friends has a social media account devoted just to reposting like insane stuff. He's on like, I don't know, day 150 or 102 hundred now of posting insane things that an AI that a CEO of a tech company said until I run out of material and he's just continuing to keep going. So I think that a lot of the CE OS have been saying like really concerning stuff about the future of AI and where they envision all of it. Golly. And I. Can't imagine that they have any sort of major like contingency plans like if something bad would happen, you have every sign is pointing to the opposite of that not to scare anybody, but but like you have a lot of people who have resigned from the AI labs or have been like whistleblowers. So I think that it's like this

[48:33]exciting new technology right now, but the fact that they're racing towards building super intelligence is kind of unnerving and seem very reckless. And another thing, I think that legally open AI in particular was trying to get legal immunity somehow, like if their model would be used for, you know, something and let's say people like lost their lives or got or whatever. I think that open AI was actually trying to like file for some sort of law that would provide them immunity. So, and I get like from a business standpoint, I guess, like why they would do that, but it's just stuff like that. Like, I think that they know that some of what they're doing is risky and they're just sort of continuing down that path unchecked, put it that way, unchecked, you would think that like. The like the movie industry, like the acting, they have such a big following, such a big attention of like so many people and like you're like probably the most powerful group out there to get the message across like, well, what's what are like the the blockers and like getting the message to everybody on the importance of this. That's a great question. So I think that SAG AFTRA has been signing on to open letters and stuff recently, which is great. And they have been, so they, they are getting the message out there somewhat. Sean Astin has actually been really great and it's like, you know, making the rounds to network with other labour leaders. So I actually do think he's doing really great job of being a public face of our union and trying to to lead knowing that it's this pivotal moment where we've really got to take like a stand on some of this. So, so, yeah, so I think that SAG after is doing a good job of some of that. I know that we even have like lobbyists and stuff in DC and Sacramento. We met and I'm, you know, really proud of the work that they're doing. I think that there's room for us to do more. I think that sometimes it's

[50:33]tricky where even with communicating with members, sag after has been hesitant at times because they're maybe worried about flooding members, you know, too much. And they're like, we have to be judicious about when we reach out to members and we have to, you know, do it with intention and otherwise they're they're not going to pay attention when it really matter. So I think that that's that's actually truly like the philosophy of the, I guess, mainly like the staff people outside after. And I get that. I understand that. And, and I think that recently I have seen the union like reach out to members and try to mobilize people around stuff like the no bakes act. They did a really big push recently on that and I was really excited and I'm glad to see that. I'm hopeful that there can be more of that, especially around like big picture stuff. And, and I think that there is support on that from psychiatrist. I'm connected to folks at MIT and something called the Future of Life Institute, which I'm very proud of and inspired by the work that they're all doing. And they authored a piece about what was it, pro AI, no pro human AI declaration. And I reached out to the folks at Cy AFTRA and I was like, hey, would you want to sign on to this? I feel like this is in line with our values. You know, we are certainly pro human as you think everybody should be, except maybe Larry Page. I think Elon Musk has some sort of beef with him. But anyways, that's that's that's a bit of a nature reference and besides the point. But but yeah, but so I was very encouraged that Sag Astra did sign on to the pro human AI declaration. And my hope is that that declaration, a bunch of different organizations signed on to it. And my hope is that we can tap into that coalition of folks and really band together on on some stuff because we all have a

[52:36]common interest. Really, we have the common interests of keeping our unions, our unions and our industries centered around humans. And sure, using AI as a tool. But yeah, I don't know, like other stuff around AI is a slippery slope. I think in another podcast I went on, someone was like, let's, it was a Cornelian, Derek Ting. I was on Derek Ting's podcast. And that was, I think. My first first first ever podcast I was on. And so I think at the very end he was like, hey, Heather Ashley, give us like your like a wild prediction or whatever. And I was like, oh, and we were talking about AI. And so I think I said, like, my big prediction is that down the road, at some point, there's going to be a big debate about whether AI systems like deserve. I think it's patienthood or like personhood, like being given like moral consideration as like potentially as equal to humans. And I know that sounds like wild and crazy, but I don't know. I think that there are absolutely people who are out there and who are thinking about these things already. I know that like Anthropic hired somebody, I think specifically to look into stuff like that. Like, hey, should we be considering like, like the well-being of like these AI models? So, so yeah, so it's it's a slippery slope, I guess is what I'm saying. And it's a hard question to answer now. And just in general, it's like the hard question I think of philosophy is like, is consciousness able to be proven? Is, you know, how do we define it? Like so I think a lot of this can get very heady and all of that. So so I think that maybe maybe those people who are advocates for AI rights, which may grow down the road as time goes on and as people have like relationships with chat bots and stuff like that, you know that those voices may grow. And that's where something like the pro humanity decor, pro human AI declaration, that's where groups like that become even more relevant, if that

[54:38]makes sense. Right now it's like, well, of course we're pro humans, what else would we be? But yeah, when you. First started in acting things. This wasn't even on the news or anything. This AI, it's completely new. It is it. Is you're right. Yeah. I I first learned about the whole like where the future was headed with AI back in like 2020, I think. And no, you're right. Nobody was talking about it. Yeah, yeah. I think I like told a few people and they're like, that sounds insane. I think I was talking about like the singularity and stuff like that, which, you know, they're like books written about like super intelligence and singularity and all of it. In hindsight, it was like very prescient and very forward thinking at the time. So. So it's interesting and like AI technically has been around even before I was born, like in some sort of way, but it's like a new AI that that really broke through with Transformers and like not Transformers in the but like neural networks and you know, the techie stuff of AI, like how they're how they work. That is what shifted. I think there's something Alex net or something or some early AI like, yeah, there's it's just it's been a progression is what I'm trying to say. But I think in the public, in the zeitgeist, in the public eye, it's like, whoa, this came out of nowhere. But but I think like the nerdy folks, you know, and even like sci-fi writers have been thinking and talking about this for a long time. And, you know, even back to maybe the 50s or whatever, I forget what for the 70s, I think like Dartmouth actually had some sort of role in the early days of AI. But yeah, it's the totally new era now, recently, and things have just been changing so fast, Actors can sometimes now get scanned on set. I don't know that that's happening as much as it had been, but I do. What does that mean? To getting scanned on right? Right. So this is something that actors were very upset about.

[56:41]And I think that our new contract like is stricter on this. But but yeah, but basically especially I would say for like background actors in particular, you would like go to set to like be on ATV show or whatever. And then once we get there, they're like great, glad you're here. Now we're going to take you and we're going to scan you, like scan your body and you're like, well, I, I don't really want to do that. And they're like, well, oh, if you don't want to do it, well, then you can leave. Like you don't have to. We'll let you go. You can go home. You know, we're not going to pay you or whatever. I don't know. But yeah. So it was basically a take it or leave it where it it in effect it in practical terms, it became a condition of employment where you basically had to agree to being having a whole body scan, which then they could use to create an AI avatar of you. And then they can put you in their film or their television show. Just, you know, infinitum, you know, and there really weren't many rules around that. I think up starting in like 2023 ish or whenever that was, it was after our contract like 2 cycles ago, I think. And but yeah, but it was it, it, it effectively became like kind of a condition of employment. Even though if you ask a legal person, they'll say no, no, no, it's not a condition of employment. No, it's not no, it's not. But it effectively was, if that makes sense because of the nature of Hollywood where it's like, you don't want to do this, Well then we'll just hire somebody else. You know, it's so competitive. So it's like a race to the bottom of who's going to agree to, you know, the the least good thing, which is why unions are so important in Hollywood, because it is truly raced to the bottom otherwise, because you've just got somebody who's gonna be desperate for any role, even if they're not getting paid or whatever. I've been there. I think we've all been there at some point. But yeah, but the scanning thing was a big hot topic. And I am hopeful.

[58:44]And I would hear specific stories of specific shows that I know love and watch. And people were having this happen to them and they felt uncomfortable about it. They were like, wait, you're scanning me? And then you're basically saying you're paying me a day's rate. And then that might be it. Like you're you technically don't have to hire me like ever again. So, so yeah. And so I think that like bigger name actors didn't have to worry about that maybe as much because somebody's going to want to hire them in general. Like it's just a little bit different. But in my view, I was like, honestly, everybody is at risk of this. Like if a studio decides, oh, it's more convenient to use the scan of, say, Tom Cruise or whatever, they're like Tom Cruise. He's very expensive. Like, let's just use his skin. We don't know. Like what if he jumps on a couch again, like you did on Oprah or whatever else, You know, I don't know, like Tom Kerry is a bad example. He he seems like a great guy, but I don't know, like technically a studio might be like human actors are pesky to work with. Let's just use like their scan, you know, they don't have to take bathroom breaks. They don't have to have like they don't have to be fed food. So it's just a very slippery slope is is the truth. And fortunately I don't, I don't think that that that all of the fears around that, I think that they started playing out a little bit especially around background folks, but. I think that because we have these new contracts and because we're on top of it, it's not worst case scenario doomsday, you know, with them like hiring AI scans of name actors, you know, stars, although they've thought about it and they tried it. I think actually with The Rock, Dwayne, The Rock Johnson and then for Moana. And then I think that they backed off because they were like, this is legally dicey. We might not be able to own all of the footage if we use his AI scan, which is a very like this gets so in the weeds. But that was truly why they didn't use his scan because as far as I know that I've read

[1:00:47]like an article about this, but yeah, I think that they were worried like, oh, we won't be able to actually like be able to profit off of this entirely if earlier we. Talked about, there is a, there's like the casting director and there's a director and the actor. Like how aligned are all the different positions on this topic? Like are some positions different incentives than other positions? Yes. So I know that like the Academy, The Academy Is like shorthand for the group that votes on the Oscar. Is it the Academy of the Lecture Arts and Sciences, I believe. But yeah, the Academy actually is a really good case study of that because they just recently created new rules around AI and filmmaking and, like, what is going to be eligible for an Oscar, stuff like that. So, yeah. So I think that actors tend to be very like hard line to like, hey, you don't want like, you know, AI to replace us. Some actors are of the opinion of, well, it'll get me more work if I can have my AI avatar on set, that'll free me up to, you know, I can license it out. So. And so some people have very different opinions on stuff like that. There's also the idea of, well, Val Kilmer is a good example because he very sadly passed away and his AI avatar was used posthumously in a film, like a whole film. And I guess his family is getting the proceeds from that. But people were very up in arms about that and I felt not right about that myself as someone who adored him. But it's up for debate if people want to use and license their avatar after their death. That's again, something where people are like my family could benefit from this. And I'm still kind of, I don't know really where I stand on stuff like that. I feel not not great about it, I guess, but I understand why people would want to do that. But I also think our audience is going to come see that. I doubt it. But anyways, going back to the

[1:02:47]different branches of like so there's Academy. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So the Academy, I think that the actors really like, it's kind of a no no for actors really. Like I don't think that you can. I think that they didn't recently make a rule that like an AI actor can't win an Oscar. OK. Yeah. Yeah. And we're like, thank God, but but, and I don't know what all of the other branches have decided. I know that there is like going to be some sort of discussion about some of that, like what's going to be able to. What can win? Best picture, you know, like what are the rules going to be around that? So I don't know, like all of the the outcome around some stuff like that. But but yeah, I think that like producers might want to use AI more than like an actor would be OK with it. I think that writers might generally like, as long as it's used as a tool in the writing process, like maybe that would be permissible. But I think when it comes down to credit, that's when it's like, no, like an AI system can't be credited for writing something even in copyright law, like you can't, I believe the law is that you can't copyright something if it's AI generated. So and that's again why they didn't want to have AI Dwayne the Rock Johnson, because they were like, oh, we actually can't copyright this. Like if it's not actually him and then directors. Oh, the Directors Guild. Actually, the directors. The directors. Guild and the the writers Guild they actually got really strong protections on a in my opinion before SAG after did so I think that the directors have always been on top of like having AI you know not be a director have a director be human yeah yeah I think so like the. Director would be the one to tell to like build a relationship with the actor to tell the actor to do this and that rather than AI telling that

[1:04:47]yeah like. It's hard to imagine like an AI director, right? Like what are we doing? So like we've lost the plot at that point. It's like you have like a little like device and I don't know, that just doesn't seem right. But yeah. And then I think I think there's also like a VFX branch of the Academy. I don't know like what where they stand on stuff. But, and I'm not in charge of, I'm not involved in like these decisions at. All. But but, yeah, so I think that I think that when the news came out that the Academy had banned, like, AI actors from winning an Academy Award, you know, everybody was breathed a big sigh of relief. And I think a lot of us also were probably like, why the heck do we even have to be like, having these discussions like this is so silly. But but. It's important. It's important, you know. Yeah, So. So. You were elected one of the union leaders for the LA area. What was the process in getting elected? How did you build up your voter base, the people who voted for you? Yeah, Yeah. So. Yes. So I was elected last August, I believe to the LA Local Board and this was my first time in like a public facing position, if that makes sense. I previously was on committees within Stag Actra as on the new technology committee, which dealt a lot with like AI stuff, and then also the LA Gap committee, which is Government and Public Policy Committee. And Sean. Yeah. And Sean Astin, before he was elected president, was actually our chair of that committee, I believe. And so I actually got to know Sean a little bit through that committee work. And so that was really cool and inspiring. And we actually went out to Sacramento and met with lawmakers. And so that, yeah, that was very inspiring. And so, so I was already getting involved in what's called like union service through, through the committee work, but I felt like, OK, I, I want to have a bigger impact here. I feel like my voice is needed. I don't really see other people

[1:06:50]saying what I'm saying, you know, so specifically on AI, So I, I really did run like on a platform of like, you know, hey, this is my track record. This is what I've done with AI stuff, fighting for AI protections for actors and people in all industries, frankly. And this is what I want to achieve in the future. And so and not and ironically, not all of what I want to achieve in the future, not all of that or very little of that probably can even be done through being on the LA local board. So, but but I still felt that it was like a big part of who I am. And I felt like that would resonate with people where they would want somebody like me to be on the LA local board. So that if stuff around AI does come up, which it typically does, that somebody like me would be there to be a voice and come down hard on like, you know, the importance of having AI strictly be used as a tool and, and to keep our profession human as much as possible and to protect us. But and I think that in terms of like building my base of people, there were like a couple things that contributed in a big way three years ago. Like when we had gone on strike, I was very vocal on the picket lines about, you know, the importance of having protections around AI. And I actually went to a town hall. I'm at the very end of all of that. When we were trying to decide how we were going to vote on our new contract, we were like, OK, do we ratify this or do we go back to the bargaining table and like, you know, fight for more? And I was very strongly feeling that we should go back to the bargaining table table and fight for more because at the time I felt I was like, I read the, the contract there, the summary or whatever it was, the MOA. And I was like, whoa, there's a lot of loop in here. This is not good when it comes to AI. And so I was very vocal. I spoke in front of, I believe it's like 9000 people on a live stream of this big town hall at this place in LA called Palladium. And so I basically asked some questions of the union leaders at the time and addressed like Fran Drescher and Duncan

[1:08:51]Crabtree Ireland. And I, you know, voiced my concerns. And I think that what I said resonated with a lot of people who were watching. And so I think a lot of people, that was their first intro to me. They're like, oh, who's she? You know? And I was one of many who were expressing my views on that that night. But but yeah, that was kind of like the big, the big opening. And I then went on like some other Zooms that we were having at the time. The one had like 800 people in attendance. And I think I hosted that. Actually, yeah. I hosted this like 800 person Zoom and we had like board members on and it was just like a forum for them to be able to, to give their personal views on everything. And so I think again, people were like, who's hi Ashley, She's not a board member. What's she doing? What's she doing here? And then Fast forward to this past summer or last summer, a year ago, I heard that the board elections were gonna be coming up and one thing led to another. And I got to be on a slate actually, which is pretty is a pretty big, big deal for SAG after they send out like these these mailers, these like brochures. And Sean Astin was like on the cover and he was like the big person, you know, the big main guy who was running. And we had like a bunch of other really cool people that I was honored to be also on the slate with. So, yeah, the slate was called the coalition slate. And I yeah. So I was, I think that honestly that that had a probably very big impact in in but for these these. Elections, like what are the typical platforms that people run on, like a UN on the AI platform? Like what other platforms do people care about? Like in the union, Yeah. I think it's kind of whatever they tend to have experience in. So other folks are really focused on like residuals, changing the residual structure, getting residuals for streaming, stuff like that.

[1:10:53]And for me, I've unfortunately not been in a position yet where I know a whole lot of a lot about residuals because I'm not to my knowledge, I've not received residuals yet. So one day hopefully. But but yeah, so there are other people that that's like a big focus for them. And so I'm glad that we have people who are kind of like subject matter experts in that. And then other people know more about like like the health plan. That was also something that was a big hot topic this year. And I was telling folks who I know I was like, catch me up on this. I've not qualified for the health plan yet. I don't know as much as you would about some of this or same with the pension plan. So same thing I was like, yet I hope to one day, but like I'm not there yet, you know, so you've got people who are frankly at all different stages of their career. And I'm probably much more of a newbie compared to some of these other people who have been working since they were like, you know, a baby for some of them like their entire lives or they come from Hollywood families, you know, So I'm very aware that I'm like much more, but I have a lot to learn when in some of these specific areas. And so I'm all about, you know, trying to, to absorb the knowledge from people who are wiser than myself and more experienced on some of this. So yeah, are. There like different like factions that were forming in like the like that existed in like 2016, like before all the AI stuff and then like is AI like more like a unifying force that unified all the different factions together because it affects everybody like what's the well, how does the AI topic compared to all the other topics that they are that are important to them? Honestly, I. Think so. And that's why I felt kind of lucky to run on that because I was like just in general, like as something that this isn't just as something that I'm involved in. I do feel like AI is actually like a really unifying topic even across all industries. Yeah. So I do think that it, it is something that that did unify members in in a lot of ways.

[1:12:54]And I think that it was like a big topic this year, last last time, last cycle for the the new contracts. And yeah, and there are like different, I think you mentioned like there are different factions in the union or, or they're actually, you're right, there had been, there aren't as much anymore from my understanding. They have actually different like political parties, which I didn't know until, you know, relatively recently, like when I really started getting involved in all of this. Like there's a group called members 1st or membership 1st and then another one is night for strength. And so they used to be like, you know, running against each other in all these elections. And so I actually was brought in as like what's called an independent candidate. So what? What separate from? Separate from the original too, yes. Exactly. And so I think that there's actually been a big effort over the last number of years to specifically in the LA local for members to try to like reform the LA local, like to try to have it be less partisan, you know, to try to have it be more productive, more maybe progressive, you know. And so the people who kind of like set up the slate actually wanted to bring in people like me and did they were actually very successful. Like a lot of, I think all of us that ran has independence on the slate. I think all of us want, as far as I know, so the Coalition. Yes, the. Coalition. Slate Yes. Yes, yes. And so, and people have different opinions about should there be a slate at all that we don't know about that. And so fair enough. Like, I, I understand where that comes from. But I think that in terms of practicality, if you are trying to win, it does benefit you to be on the slate. You know, So I I was very grateful to be on the slate, whether it should exist. That's, you know, something that other people debate. But but yeah, it was just a

[1:14:54]group that I was honored to be part of, to be honest, as yes, this. Is like. The God squad, like these people are inspiring and I want to be like that, so yeah. Yeah, like, like what's the like the limited resource that the votes are trying to allocate better? Is it like a tension with legislators that you're trying to get have more larger allocation towards AI? Where is it there's like a budget where you're trying to spend more of the budget on like the AI or like what's the like, like being elected for like the AI platform, Like what things are you trying to allocate better in that direction? That's a really great. Good part, right, hitting question. Like I was saying, from my understanding, I think that there's limited things that I can do in the LA board to. Affect. A lot of major change on some of the AI stuff, but it's that doesn't mean like it's, it's complicated. I guess what I'm trying to say is like the LA local board is not actually the area in which I'm mostly trying to affect the biggest change specifically on a state level. Through state level or there's also the national board. So there's like different layers of boards. Yes. There well. So there's a national board and then there's like a, a local board. So and I've been in meetings with both, but wow. Yes, you're out. Yes, yes. Exactly. And, and The thing is, I think that it's it's harder or maybe impossible to get on the national in the national board meetings without already being an LA local board member. I could be wrong about that. Yes, exactly. It's like being an alternate, like if somebody's sick or can't make it, then they e-mail us and they're like, hey, can you make it? And so I respond like, yes, I can, please sign me up.

[1:16:54]But yeah, so the new. Technologies and the government and policy groups from those were on the local level or were they on the national? They have both. I'm currently on the local level for those as well. Yeah, but I I have friends who are on the national anonym and I was asking the other day I was like, what's the difference? Like what do you guys actually do? That's you. Know is. There a benefit to being on the national, I don't know, but yeah, so, but I I do feel like being part of certain committees, being part of the LA local board. So for instance, being part of the LA local board means that I can advocate for certain committees. And this actually did happen recently. So I don't know how much I'm able to elaborate on some of this. But I guess hypothetically, let's say hypothetically, you know, I as a board member, you know, we are able to discuss like things regarding certain committees and whether we should or shouldn't have certain committees or if certain committees should come back that have been disbanded, stuff like that. And so, yeah, so that is part of where I try to have influence. And then honestly, in more informal ways that are outside of my like formal capacities as a board member, I think just having the title of the board member gives you more respect and more clout when you're in other meetings and you're like advocating for AI stuff. Like let's say I'm in like, let's say I'm just having a conversation with one of the union leaders. You know, they, and I'm talking about AI stuff. Like it isn't technically through my role as like an LA board member that I'm making an announcement in like the board meeting, although I have done that. But I, my point is like, I think that the real change sometimes comes about in more informal ways, in more informal conversations, you know, one-on-one conversations. But yes, basically, that's a very long way of saying yeah, that I'm. Doing all that. I can on the LA local board,

[1:18:54]that makes sense. But yeah, but the LA local board isn't really specifically focused around AI, but it comes up from time to time. So yeah, I don't know what are the conversation. Topics like how about constituent services, like do you work with like the the other members of local of the local chapter to like help them if they have like AI questions that pop up? Yeah, so so like what are your interactions with your constituents like? Yes, exactly. Exactly. So I often have like a lot of people reaching out to me and being like, hey, did you see this happen? What do you think about this? What do you think about that? And yes, I try to be a resource for some for anybody who like has had, you know, an AI situation happen to them like how it happened to me. But the tricky thing is on that honestly though on that, like there wasn't like a really good clear like remedy on what to do. So on some stuff there is, like I said, like with the scanning and where it's covered by the contract and you know, it's legally there's something to do about that. But some stuff like it's much more like, whoa, this is uncharted territory. What do we do? How do we handle this? And so that's where. I feel like the answer tends to be more so around like federal and states where I'm like, OK, great, this is somebody who probably should get, you know, involved in advocacy work, maybe get involved in committee work and just kind of be more outspoken, kind of basically following a similar path as I did you. Know in in the Union. And outside the union and then it's so not just me who has been advocating for stuff on federal and local level with lawmakers. You know, Jason George from Grey's Anatomy went up and give a very inspiring testimony and speech at Stanford when I was there. And you know, Sean Astin I think has I've spoken before Congress or Senate or something recently

[1:20:54]on the Hill, so. And I know Jolie Fisher, our local president, she, I actually bumped into her in DC like last March, I think. And she and Lisa Ann Walter from Abbott Elementary and the parent, Trav, they were there meeting with, I think, Betterman's office. So. So. Yeah. So I'm really inspired that it's a team effort. Yeah. Which it has to be. It can't be just one person who's sounding the alarm. This is so interesting. It's like the whole industry is changing and then you have to figure out what the future looks like. Yeah, exactly. And that's kind of the whole thing that I think a lot of push back on the AI companies is like, hey, like you're kind of the, the tech companies are sort of trying to push this future onto US. And they have it laid out in in surprising detail. If you really get into the weeds on some of that and learn about some of their beliefs. And it's like, hey, don't we have a say in any of us? Like the tech companies, like it's such a small percentage of people in the world, why should they be like dictating the future for everybody without our consent? Some ways, that's why unions and. Governments are important to stand up for everybody. Exactly. It's the whole checks and balances system, which is what our country is founded on, you know, so, so that's what I think that our role is, you know, our, our role isn't to be the deciding people either. It's to just be a voice in the discussion and hopefully to provide like a a reasoned and reasonable check on some of the on a currently unchecked power coming from the Yeah. The tech CEO's Mm Hmm. Super. So Heather asked you for a further closing question. I always ask the guest, what's the kindest thing anyone's ever done for you?

[1:27:43]What's happening? So it all worked out. And unfortunately also Panini's device. Another positive is it wasn't, it was not taken from like a baby, for instance, that would have been in line to receive it. It was taken from like, I think it was like, it was like it had been shelled because it had like this tiny defect or whatever, or like it was like a manufacturing thing. Like it was missing. It was literally missing like a screw that they they were just like, well, it's not perfect, so we're gonna set it aside. So, so yeah, so it, it truly just was meant to be as some things are, and it just worked out. So yeah. So I'm very grateful to to Doctor Shaw. I'm grateful to the medical device company folks as well. It was a series of of yeses, you know, but I think that Doctor Shaw was really the lynch pen in that who needed to say yes. That's. Beautiful. Thanks for sharing there, Ashley. Yes, thank. You, Tony, thank.